Job Titles

Newbie Joined: Jul 01, 2003 Posts: 6

The contract I'm working on has been taken over by another company, so it is expected that we will just TUPE across,however the new company has in mind next year to retitle us from security officers to concierge's(caretakers), as a way of not needing to worry about training for the security officers or licencing, I 've also heard of companys calling their officers Customer Care Officers as another way. This sounds of extracting the wet stuff with regard to standards, and one wonders about the legal side of it if something goes wrong, perhaps any legal eagles woud care to comment.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 7:03 pm

Firstly,
Hi Malc and thanks for signing up for your free 14 day trial.
Now on to the nitty gritty....
You didn't mention whether the company you were TUPEd over to is a security company. If it is, they will need to obtain a licence for all their staff, managers etc.

As a Concierge, one of your duties will no doubt fall into one of the catagories below;
1. are responsible for the security of property and premises, including
2. guarding people against assault
3. Guarding premises against unauthorised access or occupation, outbreaks of disorder or damage
4. guarding (including providing a physical presence, or carrying out patrols or surveillance) property against destruction, damage or theft;
5. guarding one or more persons against assault.

If any of the above apply, which I'm sure they will, then these are called 'licencable activities' - in other words, your employer is still going to have to ensure you are licenced and meet the training criteria (yet to be confirmed) laid down by the SIA.

I hope this answers your question.
As for your employer - nice try, think again!

If you could give me any more details of companies changing the job title of their staff, as in your example of 'Customer Care Officer' please let me know, in confidence by private email if you wish and I'll follow this up as its a bit naughty.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:53 pm

It is unfortunate that companies will get away with this for a couple of years after licensing starts. The SIA simply does not have the manpower to check all of these. The whistleblowing line they will be starting will hopefully go some way to countering this act although I will not hold my breath.

Posted: Sat May 08, 2004 10:51 am

I have another version of the same theme; I have applied for a senior position of Senior CCTV Operator/Concierge for my local council

1. Do I need a license, would the position be classed as in-house?
2. Which license would be required, the Generic or CCTV or indeed both?

Forum Addict Joined: Apr 28, 2004 Posts: 122

The CCTV position may require an investigators license.

With regard the renaming of titles to evade licensing, I am pretty sure that the job title means nothing to the SIA, instead focusing on job role and will just be looking at the companies involved in one step, so the bodies they have deployed on SO duties and the conceirges will all be looked at as part of the parent company.

SP

Rising Star Joined: Apr 27, 2005 Posts: 56

An extract from my website:

Change the Job Title!

Some Security Services Providers are under the impression that if they change the Job Title of the "Security Officer" then they will be exempt from the licenses. This simply is not the case.

If your staff are responsible for keys, CCTV, Access Control, Patrolling the site etc, then changing their job title to "Distribution Officer" or "Safety Officers" will not exempt you from licenses.

Basically, if you do a Security Guards job, then you are, a Security Guard and as such fall into the licensing activities categories.

Leon wrote:

It is unfortunate that companies will get away with this for a couple of years after licensing starts. The SIA simply does not have the manpower to check all of these. The whistleblowing line they will be starting will hopefully go some way to countering this act although I will not hold my breath.

I don't believe that many companies will "get away with it". Simply, the SIA Will do spot checks, and the SIA Will catch this activity, and you can bet that the SIA Will make examples out of them. For GOD'S SAKE, if you do the job, don't risk being prosecuted under the Private Security Industry Act 2001 for it!

Rising Star Joined: Apr 27, 2005 Posts: 56

Dave1812 wrote:

I have another version of the same theme; I have applied for a senior position of Senior CCTV Operator/Concierge for my local council

1. Do I need a license, would the position be classed as in-house?
2. Which license would be required, the Generic or CCTV or indeed both?

It doesn't matter if (in the case of CCTV PSS) your activities are in-house or 3rd party, a CCTV Public Space Surveillance License would be required to carry out this activity.

If you are a CCTV operator, or even if you only use the images recorded for investigation purposes then you will require licensing. You can contact me if you want any more advice on this, or would like to be steered in the right direction on what to do next.