SITO Training

Forum Addict Joined: Apr 28, 2004 Posts: 122

I thought they made you do a BJT so they could claim a training expense back off of HM's government?

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:38 am

PROBABLY they do spooky
Ihave lost count of the number of BJTs I have attended but you still get people fail them I feel a bjt is like taking candy from a kid its too easy
they should make it a bit more up to date not just security questions but first aid /terrorist groups how to know when your building is being surveiled / etc it would really sort the wheat out from the chaff
and they should make the bjt for a week not 3 days
any comments
Bigyin Cool

Newbie Joined: Jul 09, 2004 Posts: 1 Location: Unknown

I work for a training company and our mainstay is training of the SITO BJT. I have to agree that the amount of muppets coming through the system is on the increase but, being in charge of the trainers, I ensure that there is no 'coaching' of the students during the exam. I personally keep the examination papers that are sent by SITO in MY safe and only I can take them into the examination room. I then ensure that everything is explained to the students and I sit in on every examination that takes place, making sure that nothing untoward takes place. This is my only way of trying to raise standards of those in/entering the industry. Examination papers are not marked until after the students have gone, but this causes a few problems:
1. If the candidate gets 80% but FAILS (this is actually possible as the exam is broken down into sections and atleast 1 question in each section has to be correct, it is possible to get a 88% FAIL !!!!!!) then they should, by SITO rules, be allowed to be asked the question again, incase they miss-understood the question the first time round. This means that they could actually pass the exam with a bit of 'coaching'. Hence why we don't do it.
2. If they fail on a particular module we have to note down on the answer sheet what steps we took to resolve the problem. How do you do this if they have gone?? You can't! They have to come back and resit.

The training is very basic, it is entry level only, and any officers training MUST continue once they are on site SUPERNUMERY to requirements.
You are taught to drive a car to pass the test, you REALLY learn how to drive afterwards!!!!! Bad, but true.

Any company that trains in house is going to be under suspicion of 'advising' students during the exam, this is why we were trying to advise the SIA that examinations & Conflict Management training should be done by outsource trainers, negating the 'that's close enough' mentality to get guys in shirts and on site.

If any body has questions regarding SITO exams or SIA legislation by all means give me a call and I'll try to explain things that I have discovered. 0870 011 4145/darren@csktraining.com

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 5:25 pm

Darren
What you say is very true the last time I sat my BJT the in house trainer
was telling the students wrong infomation and coaching them during the
exam 2 of them failed and when we got given the bjt certificates 5 minutes later the people who failed got there certificates as well and when I queried that was told that they had re sat the test and passed but they were with us the whole time after we left the examination room,so how could they have resat the test, I may be getting a bit older but my memory and sight are still fine, Iseriously feel that some companies just dont care about quality or professionalism/experience they just treat you like a numpty no matter what qualifications/experience you have got
this is from personal experience, There ae a few good companies out there who do value there members of staff from the newbie to the person
that has been there for years,

anybody like to comment

Bigyin

Forum Addict Joined: Apr 28, 2004 Posts: 122

Bigyin,

you are an arse on a seat that would otherwise not be making the company money.

Your making money, why invest anything more in you when they wont get a bigger return.

The private security industry is for the most part nothing more than a commercial venture cashing in on peoples fears, stupidity, ignorance and arrogance.

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:48 pm

Spooky

possibly because they are scared tp promote people like us because we will show them for the incompetant people that they are and that also they are scared of the professionalism /knowledge that we will bring in
to the industry thats why I pay for all my own courses if you ask john for a copy of my c.v you will see why they could be scared Spooky
bigyin

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:18 pm

I'm going to frame Spooky posts under 'Pearls of Wisdom'.

This is specifically the reason why we wanted a much higher 'minimum' training standard.
As much as the companies themselves have criticised the likes of BJT for not being adequate enough, the companies have done nothing about it themselves, like for example paying for their staff to undertake a higher level of qualification.
Don't misunderstand me, some companies do, but the majority, do not!

A case of 'two-faced' employers I'm afraid. They want a higher standard but would never actually agree to it if it meant them spending more money - understandable from a business profit/loss point of view but if that it the case, why don't they just shut up and agree that what they have is adequate??

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:16 pm

John /Spooky
You have both hit the nail on the head a lot of companies will not promote people like us as they are scared of the following
(1) the experience/professionalism that we bring into the industry and they are scared that we embarrass them
(2) the Qualifications that we bring in as they know we are professionally
trained officers and they dont know how to handle that
and that we can do the job to a very very professional standard

any comments
Bigyin

Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2004 10:30 pm

At the very least SITO (I am sure it is spelt with a H instead of an O) are answerable to someone. Why is all this suspicion not been passed to them? Force the issue, don't just talk about it.

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:54 pm

Back when I was training k9 handlers & security dogs, if the handler or dog failed to pass the final test they failed.
The test was on the handler or dog not both together.
Yes you would help as much as I could when I was training but when it came to the test it would be down to them.
I could not see the point of passing them if they were not up to it, after all I was being paid to try them to do a job not just to pass.
Yes I would have some firms asking me pass them any way but sorry no.
If they failed they would have to come back and try again, yes there are some trainers that will pass any way but not me.

Frequent Poster Joined: Sep 24, 2004 Posts: 25

I've taken the BJT Sito training twice before and this week see's me taking it a third time. The trouble is the old not being given a certificate and so never having proof. I remember well one incident that has remained stuck in my mind. We were on day two of the three day Sito and people were talking about who would and wouldn't pass the course. We were talking on this subject for about half an hour, when one guy came up and told us to stop and look in the other room. We did and found all our new uniforms in plastic, all had our names on. It was so obvious to us all that we'd all pass. The amazing thing was that on the third day we found that the whole class had passed the course Hurray!!!!!!! Mmmmmm.

I think that the basic training is not even basic and falls short of telling people the things they will need to know. I agree concerning the need for different styles of basic as well, as there is not just one kind of site and it would save time and trouble for everyone. Most companies these days take people on with sites in mind, not simply as floaters the way they used to. With this in mind, wouldn't it make sense to gear each training course to a single style of security, rather than a Jack of all trades course.

Cheers Philip

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:43 pm

I totally agree with you on that one phillip

we all have differant skill levels,and some people cannot even read or write,some people are dyslecsic (sorry about the spelling) and some people just dont care they are only in the job to sleep/or for the money

but as it has been pointed out in the differant forums the BJT is an entry level 2or 3 day course, and as I and Other people have said time and time again it really needs to be updated, but companies moan about the standard of the officers that are coming through the training and are being put onto corporate sites as front of house /corporate security
these people who have just completed the BJT should then be put through a 7to10 day induction course on the site involving - patrols of the site,the
site assignment instructions /procedures,emergency procedures,etc and
at the end of the site induction period thake a written and practical test on site knowledge and procedures, and three months after that get put on the next course ie the advanced /or professional security officer and be mentored at all time s for the next 6 months by an experienced officer from the site, but remembering to follow all procedures by the book ie sign keys in /out in the key book/log the same with all passes including visitors passes make sure they are signed out in the relevant books ie visitors passes signed out in the visitors book including the time the visitor left as this is a health and safety requirement .
sorry to go on about this but it does not seem to get done on the site I am on as some of the officers dont care they have no professionalisim at all

any comments
bigyin

Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2004 10:26 pm

But it will never happen as it all comes down to money and if the security company think they will lose profit then they will not do it

if I was a client I would like the most professional security officers /company I could get to secure /guard my property /assets and I would pay the security officers decent money at least £10.00 an hour and
make sure that they get the training required and also extra training ie first aid /advanced first aid ect

any comments
bigyin

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:29 am

It may be worth a mention that although SITO seem to have a lot of weight to throw around and everyone tends to hang on their every word, they are after all, nothing but a training providing company.

They are not an authority.

Mike.

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2004 1:42 am

Mike

I totally agree with you but there are alot more companies now in competition with SITO who offer more training and better coursesand I think sito will find it hard in 2005

anycomments
bigyin